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Solaris Live Transcripts Index March 27, 2002
Chat Title: Solaris 9 for Developers This is a moderated chat. NOTE FROM MODERATOR: All items beginning with "*" have been added post-chat. galvan: Welcome to today's Solaris Live! chat session on "Solaris 9 for Developers." Our special guests are Bill Moffitt and Jim Litchfield. Thank you Bill and Jim for being with us today! We are ready to answer your questions, so let's begin! sam: Could you elaborate on the LDAP/Directory service of iPlanet included with the Solaris 9? Bill Moffitt: Sam, we are integrating the iPlanet Directory Server version 5.1 in Solaris 9, along with tools for working with NIS and NIS+. sam: How good is the Linux API simulation on Solaris 9? For example, performance. Also, is there a Linux simulation environment for running Linux apps? Jim Litchfield: Sam, "Linux API" refers to the inclusion of several libraries in the Solaris 9 Operating Environment (hereafter called OE). These libraries are:
sam: When will GNOME 2.0 be added to Solaris 9? Bill Moffitt: Sam, GNOME 2.0 will be added to Solaris 9 as soon as possible. The community is still working on the final version of GNOME 2.0, so it won't be in the first release of Solaris 9, but it will be in one of the early updates. sam: Will Solaris 9 be installed on UltraSparc[r] IIe workstations? Bill Moffitt: Sam, yes, Solaris 9 will be installed on all Sun products. You can run Solaris 9 on Sun products all the way back to the SPARCstation[r] 5, so it's not limited to just UltraSPARC III or even just UltraSPARC processors. sam: Will Solaris 9 or future versions ever support software install schemes such as RPM, which is widely used in the Linux environment? *Jim Litchfield: Sam, Solaris uses the System V package mechanism and will continue to use that mechanism. Solaris 8 includes the rpm2cpio utility (available in the SUNWrpm package) which will convert an rpm file to a cpio archive. See the rpm2cpio(1) man page for more details. As a note, the package mechanism is essentially unchanged in Solaris 9 except that package names can now be up to 32 bytes in length. Alan DuBoff: Can you explain Sun's position on how Solaris development will be affected, if at all, [for] Solaris x86. In addition, will development tools be available for those that have selected to integrate Solaris x86 with Solaris SPARC to capture the most out of their investments? Bill Moffitt: Alan, we have delayed productizing Solaris 9 on the IA-32 platform (x86), but we are still doing some development there. We have recently released an update of Solaris 8, and are still looking for ways to release Solaris 9. It's worth noting that we have a very long product life for Solaris, so Solaris 8 will continue to be available for several years. The Forte Developer products for C and C++ continue to support Solaris on IA-32, so it will continue to be a very good development environment for all your needs. groenveld@acm.or: Will there be isakmpd, distributed IKE for VPNs, and will I be able to use AES, which my OpenBSD-bigot network manager prefers for VPNs? *Jim Litchfield: groenveld, Solaris 9 adds support for IKE and IPsecV6.
sam: Why doesn't Sun include some support for Java VM in the kernel? For example, Apple in their OS X has support for sharing Java internal resources so that not every Java application needs to bring them up again. This is also analogous to the way .NET integrates their CLR with Windows Kernel. Bill Moffitt: Sam, we are looking at a number of projects to improve the integration of the Java VM with the Solaris kernel. It's still delivered the same way in Solaris 9, although threaded Java applications will tend to see a performance improvement from the improved threading library in Solaris 9. Watch the Solaris 9 updates for more on this area. Philip Brown: Is there encryption in the Sol LDAP client yet? Jim Litchfield: Philip B, a new LDAP library is provided which provides for SSL (TLS) and CRAM-MD5 encryption mechanisms. This is used by the clients of LDAP for communication with the server. Alan DuBoff: When will KDE 3.0 be integrated with Solaris 9? Bill Moffitt: Alan, we're not working on KDE right now and have no plans to integrate it with Solaris. Philip Brown: Speaking of inetd, how about something a little BETTER than TCP wrappers? For example, it only presumably works with TCP. I'd like to see inetd functionality that can limit by IP address, for udp as well (for example enabling talkd for local networks only). Jim Litchfield: Philip B, I'd refer you to the "CoBundled" directory on the Solaris 9 CDs. This contains SunScreen 3.2 software (as opposed to the SunScreen Lite) that we've offered in previous versions. It offers:
Dakshin: What are the new features added in Solaris 9?
Bill Moffitt: Dakshin, there are a lot of new features in Solaris 9, a lot more than I'd care to list (and most people would care to read) here.
Bill Moffitt: Dakshin, I should have pointed out that Jim just put up a nice list of security features, too. Philip Brown: Speaking of free/"Open source" software (the "Linux API" stuff was badly named: that stuff is NOT Linux-only). The "companion CD" group has done an excellent job in putting together various free software packages on there, in a cohesive whole. Only trouble is, they did TOO GOOD of a job.. I think they filled a CD, and don't have room for more :-) Are there plans to expand the "companion CD" operations? I hope there are.
Jim Litchfield: Philip B, I'll tell the marketing person here about the naming :-) We're doing some things in the Open Source space such as incorporating more of it into base Solaris. In addition to items mentioned before, we've added ggrep 2.4.2, gtar 1.13, wget 1.6, ncftp client 3.0.3, and samba 2.2.2 to the base OS - that allows us to free up a little space on the CD...We're actively looking to expand and upgrade offerings on the companion CD so the availability of DVD may help us. I'll need to check with the program folks about the plans - please check the transcript for our added after-the-fact response.
eddieo: What's the future outlook for Solaris on Intel? Bill Moffitt: Eddieo and others, there has been a lot of talk about Solaris on Intel and a number of questions posed, so I'll try to tell you what is known now. First off, we did do a port of Solaris to the IA-64 platform, but have never productized it because Itanium simply hasn't gained any market traction that we can see. We have no ongoing plans to do anything about the IA-64 platform. The "current economic climate" caused us to cut back on a number of projects. We chose to cut back on development of Solaris for IA-32 (the "classic" Intel x86 platform) and delay the release of Solaris 9 for that platform. We don't have a date for releasing Solaris 9 for IA-32, but we are hoping that, with the "improving economic climate," we will be able to put the resources back on that project and bring it to fruition. So it's not correct to say we have abandoned the Intel platform, but we do not currently have a clear road map for Solaris on IA-32. In any event, we will continue to make Solaris 8 available for the forseeable future (in accordance with the Solaris Lifecycle Model, we will announce end-of-life for Solaris 8 when we announce availability of Solaris 10) and we will continue to support it for at least five years after we announce its end-of-life (again, in accordance with the Solaris Lifecycle Model). As for questions about specific development for the IA-32 version of Solaris, I can say that we are done with development of Solaris 8, and we are only doing bug-fixing right now. As and when we decide to productize Solaris 9, we'll be able to address some of these questions. Alan DuBoff: Will Sun integrate any of the commonly accepted APIs used on Solaris to their "flavor" of Linux? POSIX-compliant threading, for instance... Jim Litchfield: Alan DuB, we'll need to check on this. My understanding is that Linux and POSIX threading is not an easy co-existence. Much of the Solaris threading relies on things such as lightweight processes in the kernel. Linux doesn't have those. Adding that type of support would be a very significant effort that would produce yet another Linux variant. Once again, check the transcript for any further clarification. As a general note, Sun doesn't want to produce Sun-specific versions of Open Source software. We want to have any changes that we produce incorporated in the "standard" source base for all to use. Producing a Linux version that varied so much from the mainstream would be in direct conflict with that policy. Alan DuBoff: Would Sun ever consider releasing a version of the Java API, callable from Forte C/C++, that could be used on Solaris? Bill Moffitt: Alan, we probably would not release a version of the Java API with C/C++ bindings, but the development tools group is working on a project to make it much easier to make Java [technology] work with C and C++ code. The first "fruits of their labors" will be a version of the dbx debugger that can work on both Java bytecode and compiled code. I believe this is slated for release in Forte Developer 7. Future developments will include tools specifically to make calling Java [code] from C/C++ and vice versa easier. Rich Teer: Version 3 of the Single UNIX Specification was recently ratified. My understanding is that Solaris 9 will not be UNIX 2001 certified, at least not at FCS. Are there any plans to make a future release of S9 UNIX 2001 compliant? It would be a good marketing statement (especially if S9 is the first to be certified) if nothing else! :-) Jim Litchfield: Rich Teer, you are correct. Solaris 9 as first shipped will not be UNIX[r] 2001 certified. We have been examining the Solaris source to determine the amount of work necessary to come into compliance with the specification. Several projects will be started to incorporate some or all of the specification into later versions of the Solaris OE. If there are specific things you're interested in, please let us know. I'll be brave and post my email at the end :-) Philip Brown: Will Solaris 9 in any way make it easier for third-party Xserver extensions? (Better API/better documentation?) I've got OpenGL up to speed for solx86 and xfree86, for TNT cards. It might be nice to see the same thing available for Xsun, I'd think. Jim Litchfield: Philip, I'll need to check with the Xserver people about the state of documentation on server extensions. Please send me some email with a more detailed description of what you want, and I'll see if I can get answers. My email is jim.litchfield@sun.com. sam: I am sorry to bring this up again, but I was under the impression that Solaris 9 will come with a lxrun command that allows one to run Linux apps without having to recompile. Is this true or not? Again the reason I am bringing it up is because Jim said that there is no ability to run an already compiled Linux binary. Jim Litchfield: Sam, lxrun was for the Intel platform (I'm not aware of any versions for the SPARC platform). Given that we're not shipping Intel support in the initial release of Solaris 9 OE, shipping lxrun wouldn't be of any benefit. armando: About GNOME, why doesn't StarOffice use a full integration with GNOME-2.0 libs? Bill Moffitt: Armando, there are a couple of good reasons why StarOffice software isn't fully integrated with the GNOME 2.0 libraries. First, StarOffice is a cross-platform product that runs on Solaris, Linux, and Windows, so, while the developers want to have it work as "natively" as possible, it's not always possible to use all the features the platform offers. Second, of course, there are numerous desktops on Solaris and Linux, GNOME being only one of them. We want all the features of StarOffice to be available, whether you're running CDE, KDE, or GNOME, so we run into a different kind of "cross-platform" issue. Third, of course, is the fact that the libraries are not completely "done," and GNOME 2.0 is not yet integrated into Solaris, so it's a little too early to integrate with it now. I expect we'll use more of the GNOME 2.0 features as we move forward with StarOffice software. groenveld@acm.or: Will we see a rmt(1M) which supports OpenSSH? Will we ever see an inetd.conf(4) that has the r-commands commented out by default? *Jim Litchfield: groenvel, rmt(1) does not support OpenSSH. I have filed an RFE (4660790) asking that suupport be added. If you're interested in seeing this as well, please call yoru support people and ask to be added as a call record to this RFE. As to the second part of your question, one of the things we've done in the S9 OE is to subdivide one of the larger packages into smaller packages. Specifically, we've split many of the networking commands into smaller packages. These packages can be selected or deselected (even in the core install option). The entries that were in /etc/inetd.conf for a service (e.g., telnet) are now added when the package is installed and removed when the package is removed. As a result, the "default" inetd.conf is much, much smaller (and more secure) than it was before. The default inetd.conf enables these services by default:
galvan: We have about five minutes left. Please keep your questions coming in. There are many questions we won't be able to address in this short hour, but Bill and Jim will try to provide answers to them in the chat transcript. The transcript will be posted in a few days on the Solaris Developer Connection Chat page at http://soldc.sun.com/developer/chat. Daniel: Will Solaris natively support/understand/integrate/use .NET platform? Bill Moffitt: Daniel, Sun is dedicated to open standards and platforms. The .NET platform doesn't fit that description, and I don't anticipate that it's going to be opened up any time soon, so I don't think we'd be supporting .NET in Solaris in the forseeable future. *groenvel: Will krb5p as described in nfssec(5) work out of the box for those who want authentication and privacy protection? *Jim Litchfield: groenvel, yes, for Solaris 9 we've bundled the "privacy module," which was the last piece for NFS+Kerberos. The other thing we bundled, which is also needed, is the KDC which would need to be set up for *+Kerberos to work. All these pieces are available for earlier releases of Solaris as well. For the Solaris 8 OE, the customer would need to download the free Solaris 8 Admin Pack and the Encryption Kit. *Alan DuB: Will Sun be releasing cross-platform compilers with the Forte tool in the future to support development of the new UltraSPARC embedded processors? IOW, will Solaris be a viable host development platform to target your embedded processor line coming to market? *Jim Litchfield: Alan DuB, the Forte tools support SPARC processors running Solaris. They do not support developing executables for another Operating Environment (OE) (cross-compiling) and downloading the executable from Solaris to that OE. *ChrisRij: Apart from those features announced for the initial release, are there any extra security features we can expect to see with quarterly updates (or Solaris 10), particularly hardening features/tools? *Jim Litchfield: ChrisRij, there is ongoing work, but nothing can be discussed except under the protection of a Non-Disclosure Agreement. *GeorgeD: Currently on Solaris 8 the simplest Java program takes about 34 megs of memory. Are the enhancements on Solaris 9 going to reduce the amount of memory occupied by each JAVA process? Or do you guys know of a way to do that on Solaris 8? Thanks. *Bill Moffitt: GeorgeD - At least in the first release of Solaris 9 it's going to be about the same, I'm afraid. We are looking at a number of ways of making Java execution more efficient, and I expect that some of those will come out in Solaris 9 updates. *groenvel: How does Sun plan to transition customers from Sun's upcoming Linux entry-level servers to Sun's Solaris enterprise? *Bill Moffitt: groenvel - The simple answer is that we don't intend to transition customers from Linux to Solaris (or vice-versa). The upcoming Linux-based machines are meant for projects that require instantaneous "plug-n-play" compute power for applications where compute density and cost are the most important considerations. We expect that these machines will be used for "tactical" installations, where the applications are well-known and readily available and a minimum amount of development and integration (i.e. investment in the platform) are needed. Solaris on SPARC remains the "strategic" platform because, for applications that require investments in development, integration, training, etc. we can better protect our customers' investments on Solaris (through the delivery of massive scalability, binary compatibility, and manageability) than we will be able to on Linux. Linux adds a new dimension to Sun's product offerings for small, horizontally-scaled servers, allowing our customers to choose the solution that fits their needs. *Albert: What's the best way to develop for Solaris 9? *Bill Moffitt: That's a question with several answers. If you are developing an application that doesn't use any of the new features of Solaris 9 and it needs to be supported on several versions of Solaris, the answer is to develop on the oldest version of Solaris you intend to support using the newest version of the Forte Developer toolset that runs on that version of Solaris. The reason for this approach is to make sure you only use APIs that exist on the oldest version of Solaris you are supporting, but gain the advantage of binary compatibility (so you don't have to "port" to Solaris 9) and the optimization and compatibility advantages of Sun's most recent compilers. *Albert: What do you mean by gaining the advantage of binary compatibility? You mean I can just develop on Solaris 8 (or even Solaris 7) and my application will continue to just run in Solaris 9? *Bill Moffitt: That's exactly what I mean. In fact, you can use the Solaris Application Guarantee Test Suite to check your application to ensure it uses only public interfaces in Solaris. If it passes the test suite, you can register it and Sun will guarantee it will run in future releases of Solaris. *Albert: Why would I want to develop especially for Solaris 9? *Bill Moffitt: Well, as I said, if you want to use features or APIs that have just been introduced into Solaris 9, you'll need to develop on Solaris 9 and it will become the oldest version of Solaris you are supporting. The new features and APIs in Solaris 9 can be found in the "What's New in the Solaris 9 Operating Environment" book in the Solaris 9 collection on docs.sun.com. *Albert: What version of the compilers should be used with Solaris 9? *Bill Moffitt: We recommend always using the newest version of the compilers, because they produce the best run-time performance and are the most up-to-date with language standards. *Albert: Don't you recommend using Java for most development? *Bill Moffitt: Yes, we do. Java provides the highest level of investment protection for your development, but there are far more lines of "legacy" code out there than there are new lines of code being written, and there are still good reasons to write some code in C, C++, or Fortran. That's why we include both the Forte Developer product (for C, C++, and Fortran) and Forte for Java with Solaris. galvan: We have quickly come to the end of our chat session. We want to thank everyone for participating! If you have additional questions, you may email Bill at bill.moffitt@sun.com or Jim at jim.litchfield@sun.com. The chat transcript will be posted in a few days at http://soldc.sun.com/developer/chat. Bill and Jim, do you have any closing comments that you would like to add? Jim Litchfield: To all, thanks for taking the time to "talk" with us. I've enjoyed seeing the questions. Please feel free to send me email if you have further questions. I'll try to work with the Solaris Developer Connection folks to make sure that relevant questions and answers are documented. jim.litchfield@sun.com, Solaris Kernel Group. Bill Moffitt: Folks, I appreciate everyone turning out for this chat - it's really encouraging to see so many people so interested in Solaris development. Jim and I will try to address some of the questions we couldn't address here and get the answers into the transcript. Solaris 9 is now available at http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/. Also, check out the Forte Developer tools at http://www.sun.com/forte. Thanks again, everyone! galvan: Thank you very much Bill and Jim for being guests on this Solaris Live! chat session. We appreciate your time! galvan: We'll be closing this chat session now. Thank you all again for your participation! Be looking for the transcript where we hope to answer more of your questions that we didn't have time to address today. March 27, 2002 | ||||||||
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